Linneus and Xanthe part 1 and 2: A blooming romance between a pimple and a sexworker.

So FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY! The Xanthe/Linneus analysis.   Only the first two parts but here goes!

Backstory

First and foremost why is Xanthe closed off from sexuality at 15?  He is not asexual and he can’t exactly be ignorant of it living at a brothel.  Is it the fact that he’s living at a brothel that makes him push it out of his mind?  Interesting but I’m sure something the authors never considered.  Apparently he can’t have sexual feelings before he is forced to have sex….which is wow gross but I ranted about that already.

On the flip-side with Linneus I am perplexed as to why they state that the things girls do don’t interest him.  Linneus is as girly as fuck and not long after that statement they talk about how he gets into straightening his hair and  ~moving~ like a woman.  Are they trying to state that Linneus isn’t like OTHER girls?  If so I may have a super secret page from Linneus’ diary.

Linneus is so different and better than other girls! Mostly due to his penis!  Also do they now have battery powered vibrators AND electric hair straighteners in this Victorian universe?

I can understand the emotional constipation but let’s fast forward a bit.  Why is Xanthe keeping the news he agreed to marry Yvette a secret? The authors say it’s because…”he’s scared of worrying the servants.”

Scared of worrying the servants? Is this a joke? Servants aren’t fucking stupid.  They are all well aware Atros senior gambled the estate away.  They would be relieved not worried that Xanthe is marrying Yvette because that way they’ll more likely keep their jobs if the place stays with a boy who’s known them for awhile.  Even if they didn’t know the estate was forfeit why would news that Xanthe is marrying a person he knew as a kid….frighten them?  What the fuck ever!

I think the real reason here is that Xanthe doesn’t tell Linneus so the misunderstanding can be greater!

Okay so they start banging

So at NO POINT is Xanthe even seems guilty about promising to marry Yvette but fooling around with Linneus.  It must be something weighing on his mind but he dare not broach the subject with the person he’s closest too?  Also he feels 0 guilt for Yvette either, considering he is aware she legit likes him and he’s pulling this bullshit?  We either have a manipulative shit or a moron on our hands here.  I still don’t buy that Linneus is 100% ignorant of what’s going on with the family and even if he wasn’t, did he simply not consider how a future with Xanthe is impossible considering Atros Senior?  Whatever!

Okay so Atros Senior finds out.  Why would he consider this relationship a dangerous threat?  He himself is married but fooling around with whom he pleases.  Xanthe himself has already agreed to the marriage, for all Atros Senior knows he agreed long after the two of them were in a relationship together.  Even if Xanthe wanted to call off the marriage he wouldn’t have the power to do so according to the rules back then. Those getting married usually had 0 say, it was all the parents/guardians calling the shots.  Even if he COULD call off the marriage he would be screwing his family and a mansion full of maid and sex workers.  Is he not going to consider the livelihood of what at least 20 other people just so he can be SOLELY with Linneus? Would Linneus agree to that if he knew the stakes?  I really don’t enjoy the notion that you should fuck over other people because you’re JUST THAT IN LOVE!

So why does Atros Senior agree to let Linneus become a sex worker? If he really thought the relationship was dangerous he’d want Linneus as far from Xanthe as possible…not in a position to fuck him whenever he wants.  Did he think that Xanthe will no longer want him now that he’s a prostitute? Cause that’s hair-rippingly dumb considering how Atros Senior is banging all sorts of courtesans and being married never stopped him.  That yanno, Xanthe lost his virginity to a sex worker….maybe he doesn’t have a HANG UP with sleeping with them? Oh but duh of course he does cause nothing short of utter monogamy is romantic…ignore the world they live in.

While Linneus doesn’t believe Atros Senior’s lies….Xanthe (who is deeply ashamed of his father) instantly believes that sex work was an unhindered choice for Linneus despite knowing that his father has been trying to sabotage the relationship?

Yeah okay!

And as I said in a previous ask, how comes neither of them are at all impacted by the lose of the heads of the household in the messiest way possible?

OH WELL!

Part 2:

First and foremost our story starts

8 years

after all of that nonsense….and nothing has changed for the two of them?

They still kinda hate but are secretly into each other?  If so…what caused Xanthe to try to make out with Linneus over that tea?  Was it only because he had forced Liard to drop Linneus so he felt Linneus was ~free~?  I don’t understand.

Let’s fast forward past demonizing Yvette cause that girl doesn’t deserve it.  Glider is super into Linneus….and why?  Glider has been with tons of prostitutes….what makes Linneus different?  He’s a man? Because Glider apparently gives 0 fucks about gender.  Is it because Linneus is more…refined than the other prostitutes he’s seen?  If Glider is way into that, that would solely be a superficial aspect of his affection for him.  He cannot be into Linneus on more than a superfical level because he barely fucking knows him.  I mean what would posses Glider to drop tons of cash on a gift for a prostitute he’s just met?

At least Linneus being into Glider makes more sense.  Though I find it prosperous that out of the 8 years of being a ~super popular~ courtesan Linneus has never had a client be nice to him.  Did he fall in love with any other attractive and or nice clients he’s had before after having sex with them twice?  Probably not.

Meanwhile Atros wanders into his father’s old office that he hasn’t touched.  Wait a sec, how comes he hasn’t been in that room…since before his dad died.  It’s an office, it is full of paperwork he probably needs to run the business.  Are you telling me he started from scratch when he took up the Teahouse? That is pretty much impossible.  Regardless the time period bureaucracies have always been in style and we know that AT LEAST contracts are written and kept on paper here.  So that’s dumb but it only gets dumber.  He opens up a drawer and immediately discovers that his dad wanted to split up Linneus and himself all those years ago…and he’s SHOCKED?  No it makes more sense that after you left for school Linneus immediately stopped writing to you and started licking pickles for nickles. You’ve only known him since he was 3…you know him better than that you outrageous cunt.

Okay here comes the only good part of all the summaries.  Lilith comes into Atros’ office and tells him to grow the fuck up and that Linneus is capable of making his own decisions.

AWWWWWWW YESSSSSSSS SWEET, SWEET LILITH! YOU ARE OFFICIALLY THE BEST CHARACTER!

Though of course he immediately puts Linneus in the shitty position of, “REEXPLAIN A DIFFICULT CHOICE YOU MADE 8 YEARS AGO THAT I AM STILL NOT OVER!!!! YOU MADE THE WRONG CHOICE BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT OF YOUR WELL BEING INSTEAD OF SOME IMPOSSIBLE ROMANTIC IDEAL!”

So yeah Xanthe is still a shit-head.  I find it ridiculous that Xanthe is this defensive with his feelings considering how at every opportunity Linneus has been nothing but overly considerate.

Speaking of which, I get how Xanthe is still pining away over Linneus cause the fucker can never let anything go.  Linneus is showered with affection from wealthy men from all angles but he’s hoping after nearly a decade that Xanthe will change his mind and sweep him off his feet?  I can picture that Linneus gets stringed along for a few years with some of Xanthe’s hot and cold affection but….8 years of being treated like a subhuman slut servant?  I refuse to believe that Linneus hates himself that much.  I’d more readily believe the authors are just desperately jamming him into an unrealistic and sexist forever-pining feminine ideal.

But of course Xanthe holds Linneus’ hand and Linneus ~apologizes.~  What does he have to apologize for? For living his own god damn life and enjoying it even though Xanthe wasn’t the center of it? FUCK ME!  So yeah INSTANTLY Linneus rolls over to being totally monogamous to Xanthe and…who’s Glider again?  Didn’t he like sex work?  Didn’t he just say they shouldn’t fool around because Xanthe needed to focus on his responsibilities at home?  Xanthe hasn’t said he plans to stop sleeping with his wife or Lilith but yeah be sure to dump everything else in YOUR life Linneus.

UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH!

So we get a reveal that Xanthe is reeeeeeeeal close to being able to buy the teahouse. HOW?

1.) He’s the worst businessman on the planet.

2.) Any profits he makes go straight to his wife’s estate because her dad fucking owns it.  Has he convinced Yvette senior that if they make a certain amount annually he has earned the right to own it personally?  Has Xanthe being saving money from his own cut as head of the brothel to buy everything?  I doubt a savvy businessman like Yvette’s father would be willing to sell if it’s really making THAT kind of money…but of course there’s no such thing as a savvy businessman who acts like a savvy businessman in this universe. I mean just look at that tidbit of information.  Xanthe was really close to buying the brothel himself and then he got rid of all his sex workers.  What the hell!?

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51 Responses to Linneus and Xanthe part 1 and 2: A blooming romance between a pimple and a sexworker.

  1. Thera says:

    Actually, the hair straitening thing may be the least problematic of this all. Victorians did do things like curling and straightening hair, and I knew a girl in highschool who went to hair salon ‘my mother’s ironing board’ for her straightened hair.

    That said, all of this smacks like a badly written outline.(which they admit) Which of course means that Teahouse itself was the equivelant of a first draft. Real pro quality there.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Please remove this. I don’t know what just happened.

  3. Lurker says:

    What I was going to say was that I’m glad it’s dead. As problematic as it was at times, reading the comic was fun for the most part. Some things I liked, some things I liked to criticize. These summaries though? They show just how shitty, inconsistent, poorly-thought-out, and illogical the writing is. Imagine if we’d continued following this shit (if only to tear it apart) for years and years!

  4. Wanda says:

    I think you are lost. :(

    • Lurker says:

      Haha. No. I was going to copy what I’d written (in case something happens) but ended up pasting in stead by mistake and then I just pressed “post comment” without realizing what I did. I was tired.

      Well. Maybe I am a bit lost but that’s unrelated… ;)

  5. Wanda says:

    Part 1 wasn’t as rage-inducing as the others. At least so far. I have’t read Parts 2 and 3 yet.

    Linneus suddenly has all these delicate features, his hair has gone from poofy to silky smooth, his lips are all pouty now, and Xanthe never noticed it before, but Linneus smells like roses. It’s like a constant perfume Xanthe can’t escape.

    This is why yaoi is so weird. I think it’s TOTALLY FINE for men to be attracted to feminine men, and they do indeed and exist and deserve to have their stories told. But in yaoi it’s EVERY GAY MAN wants SUPER GIRLY DUDE and if you ask feminine gay men, this is DEFINITELY not the case. Gay men are usually very vocal about their love of masculinity. Plus, Linneus is like 15. Any woman or man who has reached “peak feminine grace” at 15 is a unicorn. Trust me.

    Yvette as anything other than that annoying girl who wouldn’t stop tormenting Xanthe and pulling on his horse’s hair.

    FUN HORSE FACT FOR EVERYONE– horses do not feel pain in the roots of their hair as much as humans do. Obviously pulling at their hair is not PAINLESS, but you have to really fucking tug before a horse gives a shit. Many people who show horses pull whole chunks out of their mane on a regular basis– pull, not cut. Horses are like “whatevs, man”. So I’m guessing that horse would not care about a little girl pulling at its mane. There are many things you can do to piss off a horse (hitting it, running around screaming, yelling at it), but mane pulling isn’t one.

    Linneus telling Xanthe about the latest gossip about the house (like how Atros senior, Colette, and Adele are locked in a love triangle)

    It’s always love triangles with these people. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU RUN A BUSINESS.

    And they almost get away with it but they’re brazen about their last kiss in the garden and Colette sees them. As soon as Xanthe is gone, Colette goes to Atros senior and tells him what she saw.

    Why? What does she have to gain from it? Does she hate Xanthe for some reason? Linneus?

    The first male courtesan in the area, Linneus becomes instantly popular.

    AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah okay. Dude, there are male courtesans EVERYWHERE, from San Francisco to fucking Dubai. What a Mary Stu. “OH, he was the first and the best ever at his job”. Girl, please.

    The first time Linneus sleeps with another man, he hates it. He hates it because he knows he’s cheating on Xanthe and what’s worse, he enjoys the sex.

    If you were never dating, how are you cheating? And enjoy the sex, girl. Fuck Xanthe and get your slut on.

    Linneus, dressed up in translucent silks and pearls, escorting another man into the house like he’d seen dozens of other courtesans do his entire life.

    This is how you can tell Teahouse is a SEX NEGATIVE comic. I understand that forced sexual slavery is terrible, and I also acknowledge that “went into prostitution because there was no other option” is also not “choosing” sex work. However, it’s obvious that Xanthe has a very low opinion of whores. He finds them damaged, and this is why it’s so terrible for him to see it happen to Linneus. Because he thought Linneus was “better” than that. Daddy told him it was Linneus’s choice (we know it’s not true, but still), so shouldn’t Xanthe say “hey, I respect your decision”. NOPE. HE IS A WHORE NOW, AND THAT IS SUCH A TRAGEDY. Even worse, he holds this decision over Linneus’s head for a decade as some kind of ULTRA TERRIBLE THING he did. Fuck you, Xanthe. Fuck you so much.

    Shortly after Xanthe returns to school, he receives a letter. In the letter he finds out that Colette, in a jealous rage, killed Atros senior and his mother, Adele, before killing herself.

    Oh, how convenient. Them crazy wimmins be killin’. Over men. That’s the only reason a woman would want to kill anyone.

    • arianagrande says:

      just leaving a comment to say I always appreciate your horse facts, Wanda :) the fabricated events they shoehorned in to try and make us dislike Yvette just feel so forced; do they really expect me to begrudge a little girl for behaving like a little girl?

      • Wanda says:

        Well, that’s good. It gives me the opportunity to educate as WELL as be a pedantic asshole, lol.

        Little girls are LAME, man. Unless they’re boys who act like little girls. Then that’s okay.

        But dude, all little kids hate each other. Kids are assholes. Just because Xanthe grew up disliking her doesn’t mean they can’t get along now. HASN’T HE EVER SEEN THE SWAN PRINCESS???? That’s like the WHOLE PLOT of that thing (well, and there’s some swan or something in it, but all I can remember is shitty kids hating each other and then falling in WUV)

        • Lurker says:

          Yeah, but they fall in wuv because he suddenly finds her attractive and she has low self-esteem. Isn’t that basically what happens with Linneus and Atros only without the initial hate part?

          • Wanda says:

            Throw an asshole French frog into Teahouse and that’s basically Xanthe and Linneus. Cozette or whatever her name was was a total damsel in distress.

        • cc says:

          Even in Swan Princess, everyone is all “is that all?” when prince is all “but she’s hawt” and then the “”"”plot”"”" happens and THEN she’s in distress and they forget to give a reason other than the typical WELL HE’S A HERO NOW.

          TH doesn’t even have the initial hatred because of cooties or anything they try to demonize her poorly and they keep doing it with each summary.

          • Wanda says:

            I went back and watched that movie a year or two ago and was surprised by how awful it was. Like, it was supposed to be a lesson about appreciating someone beyond their looks, but he never actually learned anything about her past the fact that she turned into a swan. She didn’t DO anything witty or interesting. Overall, it was a dumb story.

          • cc says:

            Make no mistake, it was. (And a production disaster to boot)

            But a project with a lot of people tends to get more sympathy with me because those poor animators and such were just doing a job at the behest of some shithead exec. It was also BACK IN THE BEFORE TIME, so I can at least pretend media has come forward (even though it hasn’t)

            Basically when a production goes wrong it goes wrong in a very noticeable way, not that it’s forgivable but it’s more understandable.

            Unlike TH ,which doesn’t have to really sacrifice things since they work for themselves and instead all we get is the unfiltered vision of everything WRONG with “romance” and drama involving interpersonal relationships. And YET ANOTHER shitty yaoi/homosexuals in media which is already in a sad state.

            Whereas with Swan Princess there are EASILY much better and far more animated movies with princesses to pick from because it’s a story older than dirt and is a shitty adaptation from a play that’s pretty damn old.

          • wanderingaddict says:

            gosh I totally forgot to remark on this – I watched it again with a friend a few years ago, and we were shocked at how awful the romance was. Odette’s father dies, her kingdom lies in ruins, and she’s just like “oh derp hi Prince Charming oh my gosh I love you so much even though the last thing you said to me was that my brains did not matter!”

            like that was it. there was this huge insult, and he does straight-up nothing to make up for it. I mean he slays an evil sorcerer, but he did that because A) pride and B) it’s the decent thing to do? neither of those things show any character change whatsoever.

          • cc says:

            Bullshit romance tropes are like that. I think we can all agree they blow chunks.

            “BUT HE HERO, HE GET GIRL BECAUSE HOW CAN GIRL SAY NO TO HERO?”

            I’d like to see how the movie would have turned out if he wasn’t a shithead actually.

            Actually, I’d like to see ANY movie where they go past the bullshit ramifications of “but he SAVED her so she OWES him!”.

            I want this deconstruction/criticism/LOGICAL THING SOMEWHERE. Where the “hero” is shot down for thinking he gets a trophy wife because this is 2015!

            Recs for things that do this are more than acceptable.

          • Wanda says:

            I never blame animators. I just blame whoever green lit the story in the first place. I mean, they didn’t even TRY. At least in Beauty and the Beast (abusive tropes aside), we saw SOME attempts to show that the beast liked Belle beyond her beauty and that they had something in common. It wasn’t all “RAWR RAGE I SAVE YOU FROM WOLVES U MINE NOW”.

            The Princess Swan story would be awesome gender swapped. Or made with lesbians. But I feel this way about most things.

          • cc says:

            In case you didn’t know, It’s based off of a ballet called Swan Lake.

            While it too has elements indicative of their time, the setup is slightly more palatable since there is no “BUT UR HAWT”. Give the synopsis a read on Wiki since the liberties with the animated movie make EVEN LESS SENSE.

            Tragically, in discovering this information I found out the animated movie has FOUR SEQUELS.

            Practically everything is made better with lesbians TBH.

    • wanderingaddict says:

      what I don’t get is that – again – they keep treating these exceptionally valued servants as “whores”. as if these people were drug-addled prostitutes needing to solicit johns on the street, instead of men and women who on act on referrals and private appointment?

      I mean the “pimp treats the whores like shit” is something you see happen in poverty or on mass-scale corporate levels. why would a wealthy noble who makes shit-tons of money from these courtesans look at them and sneer? they just paid for his fucking house, much less why Xanthos, growing up with all this sex around him, wouldn’t just… be totally okay with it?

      Also, fuckin’ A, half the time the reason yaoi (and/or “m/m” (using the term loosely) romance novels) make me hate myself and being gay so much is this obsessive portrayal of the “gay” (re: female stand-in) man in the relationship being “the chick” while the “the straight one” is ultra macho and totes masculine, with no interest whatsoever in dudes except this one dude that’s basically a girl. I mean, as much as “douchebags of grindr” is accurate, at the same time I look at those statements and see it as a very real and genuine push-back against the societal conceptualization – that not everyone, but enough, people have – that the “gay” men are chicks and that their only goal in life is to be used as sexual submissives by “real” men (i.e. “straight” ones).

      I mean, I totally understand why women (and some gay men even, sometimes) write these stories where a gay man is used as a cum-rag, raped and abused, treated like human garbage, m-pregg’d even, and then the “straight man” is like “lol sorry, buck up bitch” and then the gay man is like “oh thank heavens, I forgive you~~~!!” I really do understand – it’s shown all over the world that this is the woman’s place, and that’s where she belongs (under the boot of the man).

      it’s enlightening at times, because I can read something like “Threshold” by Sara Douglass and it’s a story where the female main character is enslaved, raped, abused, is given a painful magical abortion by her rapist master, sees her father sacrificed to the gods by her rapist master, sees her rapist master murder thousands of slaves in bloody and gorey ways – not the least of which includes him dashing babies against the wall – but then in the end he says he “loves” her and she’s like “oh okay I love you too”. I can read something like that, and I’m enured to it – like I think it’s awful, definitely, and think that the author has some problems she needs to work out, and think that it shouldn’t exist because it can have a negative impact on women who don’t know who they are yet.

      And yet, I feel like when these stories get written, it’s even worse? like, the women who write them are so ashamed of women that they can’t even just have a female character doing this, it needs to be “exotic” or “perverse”. the women that are portrayed are horrible, and then with the “bottom” dudes are even worse. and even worse, the strong women are shit on (like Lilith) and the gay/bi dudes are all the same; it’s like “oh… okay you got linneaus… rory, who is like a slightly less feminine linneaus… and axis, who is slowly morphing into linneaus… and all three of them are weak-willed people who give in and have no desires/ability to act on their own…” and the take-away ends up being that no one can challenge the “straight” men, no one can challenge the patriarchy, the only way to live is under the thumb of the masculine dominants whose word, whims, and nonsensical tantrums are law.

      haha I’m sorry, this stuff just really gets to me. love your posts Wanda!

      • cc says:

        I’m sorry that media makes you feel like crap and I hope you can feel better even if media doesn’t get better soon enough.

        I’m sure faps doesn’t mind you posting this stuff either, it’s good to hear and it’s good for you.

        (And this probably sounds awkward, but it can also be helpful to us writers too, so don’t feel bad about sharing your experiences and thoughts, it’s important in the examination of media and society.)

        • wanderingaddict says:

          thanks, it’s really nice to hear that. I mean, I do feel bad, and awkward criticizing writing, because people write for all sorts of reasons. in a perfect world, it shouldn’t matter, but… some of this stuff is REALLY hard to swallow. even more so when it’s rare – and the only rare stuff is crap. like when the only explicitly gay anime was Gravitation. blech!

          • cc says:

            Don’t feel bad, these writing trends are ultratoxic.

            Nothing exists in a void and it’s just as valid to crit this problematic as hell writing.

      • Wanda says:

        Don’t worry, I love rants like this. 8D Clearly.

        I can see why a guy who makes money off whores would still hate them, as long as the society is patriarchal enough. There are tons of dudes who are totally willing to fuck women who want casual sex but then turn around and call them sluts for it. It makes no sense to me. Guys WANT to get laid, right? Why do they then hate on the women that have sex with them? The misogyny just runs so deep.

        I understand gay men’s compulsion to distance themselves from utterly terrible representation of gay men, but it’s not fem men’s fault for that, and so Douchebags of Grindr’s hating on fem man gets no one anywhere. To me it’s like women insisting they’re not like “those bitchy girls” even those “those bitchy girls” don’t even exist. It’s just some patriarchal bullshit that’s fed to us. I hate to see people turning on their own communities when what needs to happen is for that community to fight the group in power perpetuating the stereotypes. Anyway, I know you’re not saying DoG dudes are justified or anything. I’m just saying why internalized homophobia is so dangerous, just like internalized misogyny.

        M/M can be such a toxic stew of gender relations, stereotypes, and internalized hatred. It’s sad, because I personally write m/m so that I can get outside of gender stereotypes and just write what I want to write (without having to worry about my own biases, because even I have some to work through from time to time). It’s sad to see so many m/m stories brought into the fold of the strict heterosexual relationship roles that I hate so much, ones that have brought a lot of misery to tons of people (not saying the status quo hetero relationship is bad for everyone, but for many it is). It’s like.. not matter what I do, I can’t escape it. :T

        By the way, that “Threshold” novel sounds horrific. Even worse, it’s got an average of 4 stars on Goodreads. I wonder if the genders were reversed if that 4 stars would happen. METHINKS NOT. It would be all comments about what a horrible terrible bitch that rapist woman is.

        *sigh*

        • wanderingaddict says:

          yeah I can see a story where they have disdain for whores – but again, those are whores. as in commodity that is (in theory) cheap to replace and easy to peddle. these are the best of the best – I have yet to see even one fantasy story where the prositutes that the nobles frequent/are repeat customers of have little/no power. but yes the misogyny does run deep, especially in TH!

          yeah no it’s not anyone’s fault, and internalized hatred is awful. especially like when it’s about this, because in some ways it mixes with personal types and attractions and I mean hey if you’re into a certain type, what’s wrong with that? there’s never public shaming of the shallow bottoms who have “10inches or bust, ultra dom straight men only” on their profile and offer simply “I’ll lay there while you come fuck me” as what they bring to the table. haha I mean… I dunno. probably would still totally fall under DoG, in spirit, just has a different presentation! I dunno, I just think it’s murkier ground than many people make it out to be, with rights and wrongs on both sides. but then, everything’s like that!

          and I know right? haha, actually since seeing your comic (from ages back) and reading yours and CC’s and faps and other commenters interactions here, I’ve really questioned things like “oh you know, why should it be such a bad thing that a gay dude wants to wear a dress while he fucks a dude?” for a long time, that whole schtick seemed like poison to me because of all the other baggage with it, but challenging the patriarchy means letting people look and do what they want – so I have really turned around on that subject in the last 3 years. I just wanted to comment on that because I know we brush up against each other sometimes on that issue and I mean, like, the stuff like what you do is just so awesome because it flies in the face of that heteronormative expectation.

          • Can I just say that it is wonderful to hear that through our conversations it caused you to rethink gender expression? Cause it’s awesome!

          • Wanda says:

            Yeah, you’d think “fancy” whores would be treated with more respect. I know in our modern society, the “high class” female escorts are mostly middle class white women who have chosen that occupation and therefore have much more power than, say, a poor woman who got into it because she needed to pay for drugs or something. However, since in Teahouse they’re slaves, it makes more sense to be seen as objects and nothing more.

            That’s the hard part really– what is honest-to-God personal preference and what is ingrained by society? I think MOST people can’t differentiate between the two, because we are all products of society. For a while I thought I was a tomboy through-and-through, but it became apparent as I aged that I was a tomboy because I thought feminine things were inferior, not because I was one deep inside. So now I hate pants (DOWN WITH PANTS), wear obnoxiously sparkly jewelry, and have a million colors of nail polish I never actually wear. I also wanted a boyfriend in high school because YOU MUST HAVE A BF TO BE COMPLETE. These days I find that a waste of time and have no interest.

            Also, I don’t want to come off like I know more about the gay male psyche than an actual gay dude. XD I just know misogyny when I see it (especially since I have battled with my own), and a lot of the DoG profiles smack of it.

            I’m glad that I’ve inspired a hard look at the patriarchy. MY EVIL FEMINIST PLOT IS WORKING, ehehehe. Feel free to call me on any bullshit though. Obviously you have a different perspective on life, and since I am not a gay man, you have first say on the issues that affect that community and the struggles it entails. I try to keep my mouth shut on all things that do not involve that which I experience personally. But some internalized homophobia is kind of like an off-shoot of misogyny, so I feel somewhat personally invested? A little bit? I just want the world to see that feminine traits, even in men, do not make a person weak, vain, stupid, etc. etc. Usually it just means big sparkly jewelry and very comfortable cotton summer dresses.

          • cc says:

            @about whores
            I’d believe the “slaves ARE objects” thing better in nearly any other story because other stories would have better internal consistency on how whores are treated instead of freely interchanging whores, slaves and courtesans.

            The TH authors bounce SO MUCH about what the hell the actual expected stance is it doesn’t mean much.

            The different treatments between jobs and characters could have been used for insightful commentary but LOL to that.

      • The thing with Teahouse society is that it SHOULD behave as if its more sex positive but the authors aren’t so WELP! It seems as if Atros doesn’t respect his sex workers because of the stigma of sex work. (Btw no stigma against pimps or anything right?)

        By the way I am mortified that there is a story that took the typical “rape until she loves him” story to such an extreme in threshold…but not surprised.

        As others have said, thank you for the rant and I’m sorry that m/m romance makes you hate yourself sometimes. I have to admit to feeling the same way at times. I mean yaoi is written by women for women but they treat women and effeminate men like meek garbage. What the hell, right?

        • wanderingaddict says:

          Sara Douglass had a number of… very problematic stories. thanks for the comments again, and also, yeah – it’s meant for women to enjoy right? to be a pleasurable experience for them? why is it all – even stuff written by western women – perverse and about rape? even back when I trawled Amazon for m/m fantasy stories, it’d be like “Andy the Wolfbrother is going into heat – and then he gets gang-raped by his entire village because he bonded with a female dire wolf and all his male huntsbrothers can’t control themselves and then he ends up pregnant but one dude rapes him SUPER well!!” and it’s like “dudette, no, oh my god, why would you write that as a pleasurable read??” I mean I have never read a single romance novel like that – where a woman just gets straight up shit-on. I’ve only ever seen it in yaoi where like, the worst things happen. just the worst. even the Threshold book she was at least raped by only one guy, and she always ate well and was never like, starved and whipped and shit on or forced into beastiality the way I see people write ukes…

          • Wanda says:

            I don’t think anyone enjoys reading about their own gender getting raped, impregnated, and shit on. I think this is why when women write slash, it ends up way worse than het. In the same vein, most men would feel uncomfortable writing this stuff about themselves, so they write about it happening to women. I don’t know why everyone is so obsessed with rape. It’s one thing to have rape, but it’s another thing to turn it into a love story. THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS FOR A LOVE STORY. WHY DOES EVERYONE CHOSE THE MOST HORRIBLE ONE??

            I’d stay far far away from any slash werewolf fics, to be honest. They’re all guaranteed to be terrible. Unless it’s Ckingsbridge’s work. It has the common slash tropes but also discussion of consent. Her stuff is usually pretty feminist.

            Anyway, I’m just as baffled by the terrible rape-love trope as you are. It’s the one thing I have yet to understand about my own gender. :T

          • cc says:

            You made a post earlier about ingrained social things and I think it applies here with the rape thing being tied with and made interchangeable with male entitlement to female bodies/sex.

            I think the surrogate female/uke constantly being raped shows this off as well.

            I “used” to like non-con stuff, but the more I thought about it and the more informed I became about trends in society about sex, the more I realized it wasn’t that I truly liked it, but that it was practically the only thing available to me.

  6. Wanda says:

    Part 2 starts off SUPER!

    Living with Yvette is a lot like playing house. She goes to Atros’ office and wakes him up in the morning with her belly against his face to show him she’s showing and then immediately tells him she wants to turn his office into a nursery even though they already have one.

    How is that “playing house”? HOW DARE YOU BE EXCITED ABOUT OUR BABY, YOU CRAZY EMOTIONAL WOMAN. And every morning? She talks to him EVERY morning about making his office into a nursery?

    By Yvette’s logic, Atros should stop working so much and play with her and the baby more when she’s home

    Yeah, it’s a BAD thing to want your overworking husband to be home more to be a father to his child. THE HORROR.

    tros arrives at the Teahouse and finds Gilder dipping a giggling Linneus and kissing him.

    HOW DARE ANYONE MAKE YOU HAPPY BUT ME. RAWR.

    t’s too frou frou for Gilder and “Gildar is a MAN.”

    Says the guy with spider leg eyelashes and a huge fur coat. Hypocrite much?

    Argent and Claret in bed together. SURPRISE (although most of you already know this) THEY’RE A COUPLE.

    SURPRISE! Everyone is fucking everyone! Shocker. Also, what a totally pointless scene.

    she points out to him that one, it’s their jobs as courtesans to give their clients the impression that they’re the only people in the entire world that matter

    Yeah, but not while the client is GONE. Atros found Linneus and Claret going gaga over Gilder’s jewelry AFTER he had left.

    After hearing everything he’s ever wanted to hear before (other than the actual words “I love you.”) Linneus apologizes to Atros, tells him that he doesn’t want to be with anyone but him and Atros tells Linneus that’s fine.

    Like Faps said, WHY ARE YOU APOLOGIZING? YOU weren’t the one treating people like shit. XANTHE needs to apologize. Over and over and over again, for many years. Also, Linneus only wants to be with Atros? What about all the sex he apparently enjoyed? What about the contract? He let Claret go early. Despite the fact that Atros and Linneus were friends for years, Atros didn’t once think “Hey, maybe I should free him”. EVER? Uuuuuuuuuuuugh. What “true love”. Barf.

    • wanderingaddict says:

      haha and what about the fact that Gilder was a bright ray of sunshine in Linneaus’s otherwise empty life? he doesn’t have friends. so far as we’ve seen, he doesn’t have family either. Gilder is the first person in eight years apparently that made Linneaus blush and get excited. and he’s jsut like “lol whatever original penis is here now I need that instead”.

  7. arianagrande says:

    I like to think Lilith is aware of the fourth wall and wrote herself out of the plot to escape the webcomic. So meta.

    Also, I love how the murder-suicide was basically an afterthought. It’s as though the universe is saying, “I know you’re busy lusting after ‘My Little Pony; Equestria Girls’ refugees, but btw Atros, your parents are dead.”

    • Wanda says:

      It’s such a lazy plot device. Like “oh yeah, and some lady who was barely important murdered everyone. Now onto the REAL important stuff–ANGSTY TWU WUV!”

      Honestly, it’d be way better if Xanthe’s dad made a bad gamble and some guy shot his head in. At least that would make sense with the plot.

      • cc says:

        It’s lazy plot device across the board, everyone’s initial conflict-causer is conveniently killed so the actual antagonists are their own shitty personalities AND THE WRITERS.

        Just like how REMOVING people is how they deal with the one actually antagonistic character (Remy). Because having people GROW in a meaningful way is 2hard4writers.

    • Hahaha I love everything about this comic. Nobody can blame Lilith that’s for sure.

    • wanderingaddict says:

      hahaha I love everything about your post!

      I mean yeah your parents and their lover were killed in a traumatic murder-suicide forcing you to run the bankrupt estate on your own at a super young age. oh well though let’s go diddle some whores!

  8. Alexei says:

    There is something that bugs me about the childhood relationships trope in yaoi. When kids are raised together at a young age, they will not become attracted to each other because of the Westermarck effect. This has developed in populations to prevent inbreeding. Linneus would not be attracted to Xanthe in this case.
    http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-westermarck-effect.htm

    Faps, Is there a spam filter? Because when I write more than a few lines and I post it I get a message that says that Im “posting too much slow the fuck down.”
    LOL it happened twice. I saved this time.

    • cc says:

      It sometimes happens with me too with only one or two lines, I think it might be misinterpreting posts, who knows?

      I’m willing to give a little leeway for childhood romances since it’s not necessarily an unhealthy fantasy by itself.

      But Pimp is such a massive asshole with no redeeming qualities, we don’t need science for why this is bullshit.

      (Thank you for the link though, I love reading about this kind of stuff!)

      • wanderingaddict says:

        I think that it’s very reasonable two horny teens who don’t view each other as family could still wanna fuck, even if they did grow up together! I also think that if there’s nothing connecting them in anyway except pain – why would they still like each other? they have zero common interests, zero mutual friends, they had a weird and creepy paternal relationship at the start…. why… why would they end up sexually attracted to each other in the first place?

    • wanderingaddict says:

      it happens to me even if it’s the only comment on Faps’s page in 3 days! just wait 5-10 seconds on the “pls wait” page and press refresh. if it says it again, just press refresh again! your comment will be posted. just DON”T CLICK BACK!

    • There is a spam filter that picks up like hundreds of spam comments a day. So if you have sent this comment a few times I apologize if it was shuffled to spam right away. Usually they’ll throw legit comments with links under the ~could be spam~ category so I can fish them out.

      I have not heard of the westermark effect! So thanks for giving us this information. I can’t say I’m surprised by it though, it makes a lot of sense. I must admit I’m a sucker for friendships that develop into romance but having them be friends under the age of 6….is pushing it.

      • Thera says:

        Actually, sadly enough I looked the westermarck effect up, and it was never properly proven. (That is to say, noone was able to affirm the findings of the original paper)

        Reading into it further however, I learned that the joke ‘incest is relative’ is true, it varies a lot per culture.

        However, no scientist will tell you we’re the sum of our genes. Culture does have an effect, and in this case, is pimpy considered pinky family, he would have been taboo for pimpy, period.

        What is probably more important is that we’re seeing a clash between the 19th century romantic ideal of eternal loyalty, which clashes with the modern ideal of growing together in love.

        In the 19th century ideal it would be perfectly fine for za wimmins to be the childhood friend that was forever loyal to our hero, despite how awful he was, or how bad things would become for them.

        While today we have something that some sociologists call ‘confluent’ love, which has been heavily influenced by our modern idea of sexual identity and individualism. It’s argued that this is also the cause of the ‘divorce’ culture, because nowadays, it’s more acceptable, if not encouraged to constantly doubt the current relationship, so it can be improved or broken away from if it’s harmful.

        so, we’re 21st century people looking at a 21st century romance written with 19th century ideals, and we’re finding it barbaric.

        Yeah, I guess that sums teahouse up.

        • cc says:

          It makes less sense though since they are selectively applying 19th century ideas, if at all. The 19th century was not kind to the sexuality of women or people who were slaves.

          If the 19th century were truly being applied at all to TH it would have to be consistent but we all know how that isn’t so.

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